This is why it is important to define what you mean by "Church", because just using the word "church" without defining it, is like asking a crowd how many believe in  "God" without defining who you believe "God" is.

It was largely understood by the end of the 1st century. Further, it had been completely defined by God well beforehand. Unfortunately, there are still those in one or more denominations who try to add to the inspired 66 books of the Bible.

But as you know, there are those who read those passages to mean more than one thing. I am asking YOU - when you use the word church in your comments in our discussion what "church" are you referring to? The building that people meet in? The body of Christ (made up of all believers and believers alone)? All church congregations of all denominations? Your denomination? You specific church building? Your denomination?

Sorry to pursuing this so hard, but it is absolutely critical if we are to understanding each other.

This discussion is getting confusing and I must say, Tj3, the more you go on the less enlightened I feel, which is unfortunate because I believe you must have some interesting insights.  I gather this talk is between a Christian/catholic and someone who feels they are nondenominational to the point of being neither protestant nor catholic, tho I may have misunderstood that part.  I don't believe there is any such thing as non-denominational, rather it must be some sort of ideal and in some cases a denomination which is  trying to distance itself from it's history and/or in some kind of denial.  That's been my experience anyway.  Even a brand new uniquely named church with no tradition or affiliation and no stated dogma would still be composed of it's members who bring their own history and practices.  After reading all this I think I don't even want to know how you can be neither protestant nor catholic, yet Christian.  Also, how in the world does scripture speak for itself.  You must mean that it only has one truth, which I agree, but it absolutely must be interpreted.  It has come down to us thru the ages from distant lands and cultures foreign to us, in other languages.  It should be thoroughly studied and carefully researched, and I think it is our responsibility to interpret it correctly.  I think it's wise to listen to scholars and gain historical perspective, etc. otherwise you get something like pentecostalism, and in my opinion that is a travesty, in which case I can learn more by staying at home.  But my question is to Rick:  wasn't the catholic church the original Church all along, established by Peter and the other apostles, which developed along the way with creeds and intensive study and transcription by monks,etc. in times when books were scarce and men of the cloth had nothing but time?  In other words, isn't it just the original church, from which protestants later broke away from to establish independence, to make a long story short.  I don't know a lot, but this is my impression and please correct me if I'm wrong.  I was taught growing up that all the denominations except ours were somehow off and that catholics weren't even really Christians, and might be headed for hell (could never get a firm answer on that for some odd reason, maybe because my mom knew I deeply admired the Pope).  Also, apparently some churches had a little more of God's spirit in them than others, and the ones who had the most educated preachers and general sense of decorum were unfortunately dead!  Yes, we were brought up on the doctrine of the Chik tract.  It wasn't till I grew up and finally found someone who could take me to a catholic mass that I found out for myself that Mary is not worshipped at all but is in fact always mentioned with reference to her son Jesus, (and is fortunately at least mentioned at all).  Also, the communions are identical, nothing like the cannibal Jesus feast that I had envisioned.

Oops, thank you, that's what I meant (don't want to get TJ riled!) and I was really hesitant about if and when to capitalize those words (also protestant, pentecostal,etc.) so if I understand correctly the way you are using the word, the statement would mean Christ established a Church, and that Church is the universal Church, basically.

ha ha I like that answer

i thought constantine just approved christianity, or established it as the official state religion.

denominated from what, i'm confused.

i prefer to google define: denomination
meanwhile can you please answer my question, which is what did constantine do to substantially change the religion so that you would characterize it as a new denomination?  when the protestants came along did they restore the former or begin yet another denomination?  for the wrongs he did in enforcing religion i thought he was considered highly instrumental in spreading christianity.  i wonder what did the christians think of him at the time.